Digital Brainwaves

My apologies, Pauley. It appears as if I read your description of the current law as an endorsement by you. I shouldn't have done that.

The laws aren't being enforced 100% across the board precisely because it would be impossible to do so. There are also some very powerful corporate interests that are perfectly content to continue paying substandard wages to illegal aliens. Those interests are doing everything they can to forestall strict enforcement of the laws that are already on the books.

heee, hee, I opened a can of worms, didn't I...?

but, like most North Americanos, I do not want my weekly half gallon of orange juice (with added Calcium!) to jump in price from $3.99 to $7.99+ ....

And how, Pauley, would you propose to "remove" them?

I'll go further than Onno. Not only is this reflective of a head in the sand attitude, the sheer idea of mass deportation is wildly unrealistic and preposterous.

Do you have any idea how essential illegal immigrants are to our economy?

You're putting words in my mouth, Mark. I made no call for a mass deportation, nor do I think one is really feasible or necessary; we have existing laws in place for handling illegal immigration on a case-by-case basis that aren't being enforced.

Illegal alien labor is only "essential" to our economy because employers aren't willing to pay wages high enough to entice legal residents and citizens to work for them. I don't believe there is such a thing as "jobs Americans won't do" -- the correct phrase is "jobs Americans won't do for the amount of money employers are offering." I recognize and respect the need for a business to make money for its shareholders, but breaking the law to do it is unfair to law-abiding companies, workers and owners, and should carry legal penalties.

Still, all that being said... a company can't hire one illegally if they're not in the country illegally to begin with.

Denying any and all services to illegal immigrants and wishing they would just go back home seems like a head in the sand attitude to me. It also seems one sided in focusing only on these individuals and not what causes them to be in a country illegally and not on the companies that employ them.

I always wonder what will happen to the price of my morning glass of orange juice without them.

I don't recall saying (and didn't spot in my original post, though if I overlooked something, please correct me) that they should be denied any and all services. I just think it's kind of presumptuous to be able to be able to illegally enter or overstay a visit into this country and just demand the same in-state tuition and driver license privileges afforded to people who legally reside in a state.

You do make an excellent point, though, that companies employing aliens in the country illegally should be checked out, too. The drive to sell a cheaper glass of orange juice is no excuse for breaking immigration and labor laws. Neither, however, does having a job with a company that's breaking the law by hiring someone excuse one from having entered the country illegally in the first place.

Ummm, speaking as one who HAS worked with immigrants, both Legal, Illegal, and Refugee's (to Canada) I can tell you that it is incredibly difficult already, from the get-go, to assimilate and "fit in" as it is! Making it harder to adjust, to join-in, just leads to worse problems than otherwise would exist. I feel it is up to all of us to help them to adjust and fit-in as much as possible, either that or shut off all immigration of all kinds! (Don't laugh, Japan has done such a thing for the past 90+ years! And successfully too I might add, this is what the Japanese Public demands from their government, and they get it! A homogenous society...

Every school and/or mass public shooting back in my hometown (Montréal) was perpetrated by immigrants and/or immigrants kids who could not easily assimilate and adjust successfully into our society. (I actually studied this!) The frustration builds up so much, that they just get a weapon, kill as many as they can find, and then wrap up the whole miserable experience by turning the firearm on themselves as the police close in...

I have no problem helping LEGAL immigrants to assimilate and become great Americans, and I agree that anything we can do to help people here LEGALLY makes for a better society. However, for those aliens who either entered uninspected, fraudulently or who have overstayed legal visas, I have no interest in providing taxpayer assistance to do anything but return home. If they want to re-enter and immigrate legally, then I'll be happy to congratulate them and welcome them to the United States.

But, see, the problem is that THEY ARE HERE, already. And the last thing they want is to go back to wherever they came from. Whether legal, illegal, refugee status, or whatever. They are here now, now the question is: Do we help them to somehow fit in, find a decent way of life here, perhaps contribute to society? or do we just lock them out of the North American way of life and allow them to be marginalized? Often with very bad results? THAT IS THE QUESTION, WHAT DO WE DO WITH THE ONES HERE NOW! They're not committing crimes (only those we choose to label as criminals, i.e. they are in this country illegally, therefore we label them as OUTLAW!) they want desperately to fit in, find gainful employment, pay taxes (it's withheld, even though they can never claim the benefits these taxes pay for!) and make a decent life for themselves here. Keeping in mind, the birthrate for native born North Americans is dropping through the floor! We need immigrants to survive into the 22nd century, as there are not enough native born kids being born by OUR GENERATION to pay for our Social Security when we get old!

My understanding is, under current laws, "what do we do with the ones that are here now" is that they be removed. If the law changes, then so be it.

I'm not at all in favor of just blanket allowing them to stay as is without some kind of per-person legalization process, which would have to involve a penalty of some kind -- illegal is illegal and should be punished, but nothing says the punishment can't be changed through legislation.

Don't for a second think that I'm against immigration -- my wife is an immigrant to the United States, and she couldn't be here if we didn't have immigration processes and policies. But this country, while a nation of liberty, is also a nation of laws -- Yvonne and I went through a year and a half of being apart and spent a fair amount of money to get through the legal immigration process, and I can't support looking the other way while people who sidestepped the process 'cause it was too hard just get away with it.

You know, I say all this as on my news feed they are talking about capturing the guy who set the car bomb in Times square Sunday... right outside the theatre showing "The Lion King" and guess what, he's a "recent Pakistani immigrant" who became a naturalized American citizen! He was boarding a flight to Dubai (way station on the route to Pakistan and most Asian destinations) the FBI stopped the aircraft, had it return to the terminal and "escorted" him and two others off the aircraft!
He's probably Pakistan al-quaida/taliban! So much for legal vs illegal immigrants... See, it's not whether they are legal vs. illegal so much it's WHERE THEY COME FROM!
I think there should be much much difference in treatment of the country of origin of immigrants to the U.S.. i.e. Canadians should be allowed in immediately with no hassle's while South Asians, maybe a little more scrutiny... (that's the way it used to be, prior to 1965, Canadians, Mexicans, Western Europeans were allowed in unlimited. It was almost impossible for peoples from other nations to get in...)